Seems like, lately, everyone’s been writing about how much women should wear, why it matters (or doesn’t), how too-strict standards can be emotionally damaging, and how we’re all contributing to the rape culture. I agree that modesty is important, but I’m sensing an unhealthy dose of fear, insecurity, judgment, and tunnel vision. Guys, we all need to chill out and get some perspective. It’s not as big of a deal as we’re making it.
Men and women, all striving for chastity, often get in petty spats because they misunderstand each other. Men are frustrated that women wear yoga pants; women find them comfortable and wish men would make eye contact instead of accusations. Then there’s the classic, “if men can swim in shorts, why can’t women?” followed by a cold-shouldered “you don’t even understand!” It goes back and forth until everyone is exasperated and distracted from the important things in life – like love, respect, courtesy, and recognizing human dignity.
We’re stressing about it too much. Everybody has different standards of modesty, and – wait for it – that’s okay. The Church has never defined what types of clothing are acceptable, and for good reason. She expects us to practice the virtue of prudence in applying a timeless truth to our particular situations. Women vary in what they’re comfortable in; men vary in how much skin is tempting and how much temptation they can handle. If we’re all going to pursue chastity and treat each other with dignity, we have to realize that we all see the world differently, we all see each other differently, and we have to meet each other halfway. Men, not every woman-striving-for-chastity will dress in a way that meets your individual needs. Women, not every man-striving-for-chastity will look at you without temptation. Do what you can, and understand that others are trying, too. Nobody’s going to be perfect at it, and nobody’s standards are identical to yours.
Modesty, believe it or not, is not primarily about preventing rape, protecting women, or helping men control their sexual desires. Modesty is primarily about love, about recognizing our own human dignity and that of others; anything else is secondary or corollary. If love doesn’t underlie all our conversations and all our decisions, we’re doing it wrong. To dress modestly, we dress in a way that says “I respect you, and I respect myself.” That’s why we don’t wear gorgeous white dresses or trashy jeans to our friends’ weddings; that’s why we don’t wear swim suits to work; that’s why we don’t wear clothes that scream “easy.”
The myth that women can, by their virtue and captivating beauty, inspire men so as to change the hearts of the filthiest scoundrels into havens of virtue, frankly, is stupid. Men who make catcalls are going to make catcalls no matter what you’re wearing; men who sexually abuse women are going to do so whether they’re in bikinis or long skirts. Men who are striving to respect women, men who struggle with lust (instead of bowing to it) – those are the men who appreciate women dressing modestly. If you dress in a way that says “I respect you, and I respect myself,” it’s a lot easier for men to say “I respect that.”
Respect is where we ought to be focusing. We get so worked up over men not lusting after women and men not seeing women as a collection of body parts that we forget how men should see women. Here’s an oft-missed point: it is good and healthy – not just okay but good and healthy – for men to find women attractive, even sexually attractive. The reverse is also true. We should like each other. It makes no sense to believe in a God who says “be fruitful and multiply” on one hand and “don’t be attracted to each other” on the other hand. He never said the second.
Attraction and lust are entirely different things. When young men get don’t look at her butt training, they confuse healthy attraction with lust and try to banish it all. That leaves them sexually confused and scrupulous, and it’s not too far of a stretch to go from “she’s attractive” to “this must be lust” to “would she please put more clothes on.” When young women get cover up for creepers training, they do so dutifully and wonder if they will ever find a decent man to marry. They struggle to reconcile their desire to be attractive and loved with their desire not to be creeped on. It perpetuates the myth that men are fundamentally incapable of authentic love.
Here I would like to propose that we stop talking about modesty altogether, because I’m tired of it, but that’s not the right approach. Instead, let’s try some perspective. Men, be chaste; if you need to look away, do so out of respect for the woman, not judgment. Be patient; know that those of us who are trying really are trying and those who aren’t trying probably won’t no matter what you say. Try to understand that it’s often very difficult for us to find clothing that’s cute, modest, and reasonably priced. Women, dress respectfully. Try to understand that men see the world differently, and the ones who are trying really are trying. Level-headed men can give you a helpful perspective on what that skirt looks like to men, but know that individual men differ and ultimately, you can make your own clothing decisions. If a man calls you a temptress or a slut, ignore him. Know that he doesn’t represent all men.
We already spend plenty of energy to uproot sin. This is good; let’s keep at it. But let’s also watch out for pride, anger, resentment, impatience, frustration, scrupulosity, infighting, and disunity – these are all sins or symptoms of sins, and if this is where we’re headed, we haven’t gotten any holier. This should be our focus: love, human dignity, and respect. It’s sin we’re fighting, not hemlines.
24 thoughts on “Can We Stop Fretting About Modesty?”
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Wow, the failure of our pastors to communicate Catholic standards of modesty is leading to many women thinking, perfectly sincerely, that modesty is just completely relative and culturally conditioned, and even though the human body and psyche and concupiscence are everywhere the same that nevertheless there’s no standard, and people having no understanding at all of having any obligation to avoid giving occasion of sin to others by their manner of dress. This is a stunning, and mistaken, article. This is the dress code sign present in Vatican City, depicting the dress code which is *enforced* as best they can not only at St Peter’s Basilica but throughout Vatican City–because modesty is not just for in church: http://www.laetificatmadison.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/vaticandresscodesignverylargeimage-e1355542385809.jpg How many people are aware anymore that it is Catholic teaching that skirt length should not be considered modesty if it is not well below the knee, or that shoulders should be covered? How many priests do not even give guidance on modest wedding dresses, and there is nary a peep when wedding dresses, meant to be a sign of the bride’s purity, are immodest, and the bridesmaids are in strapless and short cocktail dresses? This is contrary to our dignity, offends against others, and is offensive before God. In some places, there are even immodestly dressed women doing readings at Holy Mass or even distributing Our Lord in Holy Communion, which is one of the most disturbing experiences, just extremely wrong, and I know from having inquired that priests are scared to death of offending women or scaring them away by mentioning a standard. But without a standard, and adequate understanding of how it is compassionate to others to not give occasion of sin by immodest dress and how serious the danger is to others particularly some males, and how this impacts also women’s dignity and interests, there is no change in behavior–and no real understanding of modesty in fact. Women wear almost anything and insist they’re modest. Women come to Mass in little short shorts, spaghetti strap tanks, whatever. They will insist their mid thigh length skirts are modest. Look, there is a standard, there is a reason, and Christians cannot let the sexually depraved secular culture be the standard of our dress and lead us to bear witness against chastity, against modesty, against true beauty and the dignity of woman by the way we dress.
Thank you for confronting another incursion of relativism. I particularly like your characterization that “This is a stunning, and mistaken, article.” I am amazed to find it on the Ignitum web site, and promoted by EWTN via the NCRegister. I have to challenge Chris Ricketts’ contention that “modesty begins within”. There is ample evidence that too many have too little concept coming from within, and clearly need appropriate guidance from without (spoken as the father of a stunningly beautiful 18-year-old who is learning the concept slowly despite powerful resistance). There are many people who understand how to operate a motor vehicle safely. For the rest, there are speed limits, traffic laws, and police to enforce them.
Patrick Lahey,
Thanks for your comment. You made a good point about parenting, which is a little bit off my radar screen since I’m not under my parents anymore and we don’t have kids of our own yet. Parents *should* enforce what they believe is proper dress for their children, as long as their kids are young enough to still be under them. This is part of teaching them how to have authentic respect for themselves and other people, which parents have a responsibility to teach.
I agree that “too many have too little concept coming from within.” That’s because they’re lacking in formation, or grace, or something that inhibits proper employment of the virtue of prudence. Some of this may be the result of neglectful parenting, but I am not willing to make a blanket judgment because every family’s circumstances are different. I don’t mean to say – and didn’t say – that modesty is a make-it-up-as-you-go-along free-for-all. I do mean to say that it is a matter of prudence, which is a virtue and entirely different from a free-for-all. Parents should help their children grow in all virtues, including prudence.
As I mentioned to Chris Ricketts, if you feed the poor primarily because you want to look like a better Christian, you’re doing it wrong; if you feed the poor because you love them and want them treated with human dignity, you’re doing it right. I think this is what he meant by virtue coming from within. Cf 1 Cor 13:1-3.
I don’t think the article is mistaken. I think the author did a good job trying to look past some of the physical attributes such as dress lengths etc to look at the spirit of it. ElizD, check out some of the posts over at the Bad Catholic Blog. He writes very well, and there are four posts there that I think go along with the thinking of the author here. Modesty is not just a dictatorial standard of dress. Those things are just superficial at best, necessary at worst. Check out these articles:
Modest is not Hottest: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2013/06/modest-is-not-hottest.html
Things Modesty Doesn’t Have Anything to do With: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2013/06/things-modesty-hasnt-a-damn-thing-to-do-with.html
Modesty is Honesty: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2013/06/modesty-is-honesty.html
Modesty Sets Fire http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2013/06/modesty-sets-fire.html
There is a lot of well-intentioned and inadequte teaching out there. Christopher West is a key culprit whose well intentioned presentation regarding the human body, sex and marriage is widely acknowledged to undermine the understanding that we are ALL afflicted by concupiscence. Modesty is necessary because we are all fallen and all have concupiscence. It is moral that this must be taken into account in our fallen world. When no guidance on standard of dress is given, there is no behavioral effect of telling people that modesty is a virtue. They do not seem to figure out how to actually live that virtue in a way to be edifying to others or even help others to avoid temptation.
I understand what you are saying, and I don’t necessarily disagree with the idea of dress codes where appropriate. Schools enact dress codes as well as places of work. I think the issue of modesty begins internally, though. My wife went to Catholic school her whole life, and in her Catholic high school, the girls would intentionally roll up their skirts as high as they could go without getting in trouble. Do you think they were getting the message? To expand on that, should a non-married couple be asking themselves how far can they go before it’s too far? Is that in the lines of purity or abstinence? The imposition of dress codes in certain places is proper, and it does disturb me when I see both men and women dressed inappropriately for Mass, but I still think that the idea of modesty begins within. It is possible for someone to wear modest clothes and present themselves immodestly despite their outward appearance. It is our own responsibility to honor a person in their full dignity regardless of how that person is dressed. It is a man’s responsibility not to lust after a woman even if she is dressed in a very immodest fashion. I enjoy Christopher West’s writings, and I don’t think he dismisses the existence of concupiscence. His stuff is disputed in several circles, but I think he has some good things to say regarding the Theology of the Body. We are whole persons, including our sexuality. While dress codes have a place, I still think they are a band-aid to the realization of ourselves as whole persons, body and soul.
Chris Ricketts,
Thanks for your comment! Every virtue, if it is authentic, comes from the heart. St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13 “If I do [all sorts of great things] and do not love, I am nothing.” (paraphrased.) If you feed the poor primarily because it makes you look like a better Christian, you’re doing it wrong; if you feed the poor primarily because you love them and want to treat them with the dignity due to all humans, you’re doing it right.
I agree that dress codes – for schools, churches, offices, etc. – can be helpful (and some times arguably necessary), but, as you mentioned, dress codes shouldn’t be confused with objective standards to be followed at all times, at all places, by all people.
Mary seems to forget that immodesty displaying female body in a lusty way is a great lust generator in the mind of man. So if we believe in Christ, we should not give occasion for others to sin. It is an important matter to think why at all a woman or girl show her nakedness of body parts to all as it is to be preserved for her husband only ? This is a Christian view.
Mary has done no such thing. In today’s hyper-sexualized culture, just about anything can be a “lust generator.” So because of that, should women walk around in square boxes completely covered so as not to lead their poor brothers in Christ into an occasion of sin? Oh wait, that’s called Islam. Where does the responsibility of the one wearing the clothes end and the one seeing that person begin in regards to temptation and lust? I think the root of this discussion is the discernment of the difference between a Pharisaical view of modesty that clings to dress codes and breaks out rulers to measure the length of skirts and a living, “breathing” display of modesty as the recognition of the entire human person, BODY and soul. Are all those naked people on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel being immodest? Pope John Paul II had the coverings that were put on them REMOVED. How terrible! I think there is a difference between a woman trying to incite the lust of men by displaying certain body parts and thus reducing herself to a “lust generator” and a woman who dresses in a way that reflects her femininity which is made in the image and likeness of God the Father without going into hiding because some guy may look at her and twist her into a lust object in his own head.
I am not interested in arguing and winning. I am not interested in quoting existence of painting to justify any wrongs of my sisters. What I humbly say is that revealing dress is an indirect “lust generator” and those who consider it a scandal will not expose their body . The fact that we humans are weak and circumstances and surroundings have a great say in forming our thoughts, our desires cannot be set aside. As a father I advise my daughters that their dress should not be revealing and scandalous. I can do so much only as the modern society believes in “relativism” and not in faithfulness to Christ and His teachings.
kcthomas,
Please re-read Chris Ricketts’s comment, and my original article. *Nowhere* do I (or does he) advocate wearing skimpy or revealing clothes in public. I am not sure why you seem to think so.
What I intended is that ceiling on Sistine chapel cannot give us any excuse. What I wrote is a general feeling and not any accusation on anyone. I never doubted your sincere thoughts in the article. We all want one thing “modesty” .
Great, great post. One thing I love about being Catholic is that there are no hard-and-fast dogmatic teachings on how we ought to dress (aside from the general principle of modesty, of course, which is left up to our freedom to apply), unlike in certain Jewish or Muslim sects. I do not for one second think this is a “relativistic” attitude, but simply a reasonable one: it makes sense that women who live in warmer climates would wear less clothing than women who live in colder ones, and so on.
I also agree that so much talk about modesty actually ends up doing the opposite of what is intended: that is, it leads to the objectification or reduction of the person. Men are reduced to sex-driven animals and women are reduced to naiive seductresses (at best) or brazen hussies (at worst). The truth is, modest dress does not automatically foster respect for the human person (hello, Afghanistan); it is love for Christ that leads to the kind of respect we all deserve. Each person can only control the disposition of his or her heart, and dress and act according to that disposition, which is why continuous conversion is so important.
theevangelista,
Thanks for your comment! You make a really good point that “so much talk about modesty actually ends up … [leading] to the objectification or reduction of the person. Men are reduced to sex-driven animals and women are reduced to naiive seductresses (at best) or brazen hussies (at worst).”
Men *are* capable of authentic love, and it’s wrong to pretend otherwise. Men are also capable of sin, and we should take their temptation into account, but we shouldn’t pretend that’s all they are.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this article! Why is everyone so concerned with what women are wearing. I am a conservative Catholic woman but I think it’s a little disturbing the obsession the Catholic blogosphere has with this subject. When Simcha Fisher posts an article on modesty there are always over 200 comments. There are more important issues facing us today, so people, get your heads out of the gutter and think about something else.
Is it not the case though that by saying there is no “law” on standards, make it so that there is no principle for modest dress anyway. I feel like we are just canceling it out so basically girls can where spaghetti strapped tops, and skirts so short and tight you can neither walk right or bend over more than a 15 degree. angle. I am not trying to get into a scuffle about it. But I think it is good to point out that we should keep in mind the point of love and kindness, an respect for the dignity of the human person. We can get into major trouble by saying well there are no hard and fast requirements, and then when a girl is in a super low cut top that shows a lot of cleavage we are expected to look at her eyes, and I agree fully we suppose to have custody of the eyes, but all you end up doing is making it harder to swing through the current. Our culture is so overly sexualized, that if we do not do enough together to reach a medium than the message of this article would in fact be a total failure.
An example. My friend has a little sister who is approaching college. she always wheres yoga pants. I rarely ever see her in anything else. plus when her friends re over some where yoga pants with very thin spandex it’s like there naked but with black paint on there skin. Now can they do something to at least help us out in the temptation department. Not really for my sake or any other guy thats there but for their sake. Not saying they can’t dress in something that shows a figure but really don’t tread on thing ice. I understand clothes today that are modest are just a needle in a haystack, I window browse vintage clothing shops. But they are not a dime a dozen. By not getting into the nitty gritty we don’t do ourselves any favors.
You have said so many excellent things. I’m afraid that as long as we see fellow females on the verge of falling out, or guys with pants halfway to the ground, though, we’re not going to be able to avoid the m-word.
I have a problem with a lot of the modesty programs, but I still find this article problematic. We need to talk about modesty, because modesty is the outward reflection of what we are, and are called to be. It’s about a lot more than merely “respecting ourselves” or some other sentiment.
If a lot of the talk from the critics of the “modesty culture” were centered around this, then this would be a useful endeavor. Instead, I feel they are just trying to deny reality, just like our secular friends and those who go into excess in the modesty culture.
We are plain-catholics from Ohio.Modesty or a lack of it really reflects our societal
emphasis on pride.We live in a “look at me,what about me” culture.This is reflected in clothing but also in huge Mcmansions,the latest/biggest SUV,gold chains the size of dog chains,watches big enough to be on a watch tower,etc.We should be modest in all our choices.Some times we must remember if we are part of the city of man or city of God.Functional and comfortable clothing,cars,houses are out there that are attractive without being pridefull.You can be modern without being pridefull.As my grandfather told me,”was pride made angels into devils”.You don’t have to be plain-catholic or amish to be modest.Just stow the pride in all things.
About raping. Raping is not about anything but power and men that do that have severe issues. I have known women dressed in Hagab in the Middle East get raped. And, just realize that some of these women look like walking around tents. You don’t even see the eyes on some of them.
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