NFP and MR.

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You may have to bear with me.  The indescribably talented Emily Zanotti presented a wonderful case for adding some zip, jazz, and flare to the sign of contradiction that is our Beloved Church’s teaching on marital intimacy.  Given that July is NFP Awareness (USCCB), or at least a week of July is, I thought I would add some thoughts from a masculine point of view.

 

Back in the heyday of NFP, the year 2000-1 when my wife and I began charting during our engagement as prep for marriage, we were introduced to so much about women.  Mucus this, shiny that, temperature this, green day, “Do you have the time, to listen to me whine…”, dang it sorry that was Green Day, baby sticker here, where did I put the chart there, mom finds our chart here, newly married couple embarrassed when asked “What does all those “I’s” mean?” there.  No really, the last one happened.  Really.  But not to me.  A good friend told me about it one day and I almost choked on my beer just thinking about it.  That experience is worthy of a catholicized Seinfeld episode.

 

But really, why can’t they make stickers that don’t smudge all over the place?  Anyways, back on topic.

 

So NFP and men was seldom discussed.  Men are basically given the sidekick role right?  Sure I was told to be a good charter (which I failed to do miserably), be affectionate in infertile times, and spark the romance by holding hands.  I am sure all those are wonderful things, but really, all those things should be happening throughout marriage right?  I guess the only masculine thing I remember is that men are always fertile. 

 

Considering NFP affects both sides of the marriage bed, I figured why not try to figure out more manly things about this lifestyle.  So here it goes.

 

I figure most men kind of understand what goes on in those green days, so I am going to focus on the days that require control.  Gaining control, via reason and will, of our innate drives and emotions is actually the meaning of responsible parenthood according to HV.  (See para. 10).  Gaining control, self-mastery, self- discipline, are all pretty much the same as growing in virtue.  Later on in Humanae Vitae, Pope Paul VI goes into further detail:

“For if with the aid of reason and of free will they are to control their natural drives, there can be no doubt at all of the need for self-denial. Only then will the expression of love, essential to married life, conform to right order. This is especially clear in the practice of periodic continence. Self-discipline of this kind is a shining witness to the chastity of husband and wife and, far from being a hindrance to their love of one another, transforms it by giving it a more truly human character. And if this self-discipline does demand that they persevere in their purpose and efforts, it has at the same time the salutary effect of enabling husband and wife to develop to their personalities and to be enriched with spiritual blessings. For it brings to family life abundant fruits of tranquility and peace. It helps in solving difficulties of other kinds. It fosters in husband and wife thoughtfulness and loving consideration for one another. It helps them to repel inordinate self-love, which is the opposite of charity.”  (21)

 

Those periods of time in marriage that require husband and wife to practice continence is a time for a determined and focused pursuit of virtue.  There are a lot of chats about a women’s cycle in NFP training, but little about a man’s cycle.  Men have cycles?  Of course.  Our cycles are a little bit different.  Our desire for marital intimacy is more physical.  I am not saying women don’t have physical needs by any means.

 

Sure, men have emotional needs, intellectual needs, and spiritual needs as women to do.  Without getting too raunchy and for lack of a better word, I am left with what this secular world calls “horny.”  I wish there were a better word for it.  Perhaps I should make something up because even this word’s strict definition is along the lines of “lustful.”  I think the meaning of this term gets a bad rap though.  As a man, it is sometimes easy to feel unmanly, cowardly, shameful, because our body is wanting a physical release of sexual energy.  However, there is nothing wrong with this bodily desire, rather “The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment.”  So there must be a difference between a physical desire “in seeking this pleasure” and lustfulness.  To have the desire or horniness (Gosh, people, can’t someone come up with a better word) is acknowledging that a male person recognizes a God given pleasure.  The shame and guilt is appropriate for the free but wrong decision to lust after someone.   

 

In this day and age, we don’t train young men how to control their passions and point or funnel them to higher goals.  Chastity is a positive virtue which allows a person to give of himself more fully and in marriage those periods of continence are wonderful times for chastity boot camp. 

 

So what are some manly ways to help control our passions with our reason and free will?

  1. Prayer.  Offer up the struggle. 
  2. Knowing is half the battle.  In my early military days of playing guns in the backyard, GI Joe’s slogan was “Knowing is half the battle.”  The first step is having a plan.  Men’s sexual appetite does not come and go, it comes and stays until something is done about it.  Having a strategy is important.  In business, I would perform a SWOT analysis to help determine strategy.  A man must know his strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. 
  3. Training.  I have found that I can control my sexual passions much easier when I am training.  Physical exercise, especially running, uses up energy but also requires mind over matter.  I think running is good because it is cheap, easily accessible, competitive, and requires mental strength to push your physical body.  Your body is saying stop, hit the recliner, snooze while you mind says, “One more mile and after that another mile.” 
  4. Custody of the eyes.  Of course this is a given for any person seeking purity, but being more conscientious of the struggle during these times is important.
  5. Cold showers.  Sounds easy.  But it ain’t. 
  6. Proper sleep.  To struggle with anything in life, sleep is important.
  7. Nutrition.  The body needs proper feeding if you expect it to work properly.  On the flip side, denying yourself certain foods also leads to greater strength in the other temptations within the battle of temperance.

 

Time for you to speak up.  What has helped you gain more control over your passions in the times that require continence?  And heck, I am going to throw it in for discussion too.  What is another name for “horny” that has a positive recognition for sexual desire but not affiliated with lustfulness or libidinous?

 

[author] [author_image timthumb=’on’]https://www.ignitumtoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/JTDTAT-Childrens-House-Copy-e1329964684276.jpg[/author_image] [author_info]Jared Tomanek lives in the country of Texas with his wife Denise, a Southern Belle from Trinidad and Tobago, and his three children. He holds two graduate degrees from Our Lady of the Lake University in San Antonio, an MBA and Master of Science in Organizational Leadership, and a Bachelor of Arts degree from Franciscan University of Steubenville. Having taught for five years in Catholic education, he now works in the construction industry in Victoria, TX. He is a parishioner of Holy Family of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus Parish in the Diocese of Victoria. He also blogs at his local paper on just about everything cool.[/author_info] [/author]

J.Q. Tomanek

J.Q. Tomanek

J.Q. lives in the country of Texas with his wife Denise, a Southern Belle from Trinidad and Tobago, and his three children. He holds two graduate degrees from Our Lady of the Lake University in San Antonio, an MBA and Master of Science in Organizational Leadership, and a Bachelor of Arts degree from Franciscan University of Steubenville. Having taught for five years in Catholic education, he now works in the construction industry in Victoria, TX. He is a parishioner of Holy Family of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus Parish in the Diocese of Victoria.

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40 thoughts on “NFP and MR.”

  1. Avatar

    Great suggestions, Jared. I think the word you may be looking for is “amorous” if your wife is just too beautiful too resit in the moonlight, “randy” if she is just too cute on beer and wing night, and “pester” if she is just too alluring in that LBD you’re trying to get off of her when you are already late for the cocktail party.

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  3. Avatar

    Great article. NFP from the guys perspective is hard. I also remember my first class when all they talked about with men is that they are always fertile.

    As to the alternative, I would throw “passionate” into the mix. You even use “passion” in your descriptions. While passions can be positively ordered, through temperance and in this case chastity is a great gift to benefit both husband and wife.

  4. Avatar

    It is always heartbreaking for me, a father of a family, to see articles like this promoting the demographic disaster known as NFP. I look back at the children that we NFPd out of existence, and I cannot look at myself in the mirror anymore. When my wife and I finally gave up on this practice, the children came along and what children we have are going to be the joys of our old age, which is fast approaching.

    But we always regret practicing NFP, which is, if we can but be honest with ourselves, nothing more than Catholic birth control.

    Many bristle at that characterization. But they shouldn’t. Our protestant neighbors see through this sham quite clearly and because of that we can expect to make few converts among them. They rightly see that we condemn out of one side of our mouths the artificial method of preventing births while praising out of the other sides of our mouth our way of preventing births. The crucial point here is not so much the method, but the intention. If the intention is to prevent births for frivolous reasons (e.g., my wife’s job, our new car payments, our desire for nice yearly vacations, a bigger house, a more lavish weekly food budget, more dining out, etc., etc.) we have already committed the first sin, namely: preventing birth and frustrating the natural ends of marriage. All that artificial contraception does is to compound the sin by using a method that actually kills an unborn child. And may we be brutally honest with ourselves once again? Let us admit the hard truth: the vast majority of people who use NFP are using it for non-grave reasons.

    Of course I will now have thrown at me the fact that the Church, in the person of the last several Popes and the current crop of Cardinals, Bishops and priests (with a few notable exceptions) happily endorse this practice. The fast and indescribably sad answer to that is simply that the current leaders of the Church have been seriously misguided on a number of issues and many of them, horrible to contemplate, have been cowards. These are harsh words. But I believe the evidence of Catholic divorce rates (including our own version of divorce, annulments), the news that over 80% of Catholics approve of contraception, homosexuality and stem cell research involving unborn children, a horrible even comical weekly travesty called a “Mass”, a toleration of every form of heresy imaginable, an infestation of homosexuals into the priesthood that has been unprecedented in the Church’s 2,000 year history, among other troubles, should be enough evidence for anyone to see that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has been amiss in its duty of teaching the Faith, whole and entire.

    As a father who will never see the children that he refused when God was ready to send them, I beg of you never to practice this injustice. You will never, not ever, regret saying to to NFP.

  5. Avatar

    Dan,

    Thank you for your candor. No throwing! 🙂

    I greatly appreciate your perspective on this issue because I can relate to it. These are difficult, but worthy, conversations to have and it helps people to think through the issue in their own lives.

  6. Avatar

    @Val, amorous, randy, and pester. I will stock those in my mental library. I wonder if there is an adjective form of Himeros, the Greek erotes that created sexual desire in people.

    @Amanda, yes, “passionate” is a possibility. It is also used in other forms like “I am passionate about classical music.” I did a quick search and still haven’t found a common word for that simple, biological function of desiring in that particular way.

    @Dan, thanks for your contribution and thoughts. Do you have any ideas for the word replacement?

  7. Avatar

    I totally agree with and appreciate your acknowledgment of the “male cycle” because I found from my own experience that about every 2-3 weeks of our first year with NFP, I would get very urgent in my appetite for sex. When that coincided with my wife’s peak fertility, it made the period of abstinence especially challenging (happily, most of the time it coincided with a dry phase). I did not find running helpful because it made me feel healthy, fit, and robust and consequently very lusty; If I feel like a fat slob of a couch potato and neither attractive nor desirable, then I am less inclined to want to present myself in the bedroom. on the other hand, I found it much easier to abstain during Lent and 40 days for life, because I was already strong in self-mastery. This time round with our second child I have found the period of abstinence while waiting for her cycle to return to be more difficult than I remember it being with our first child. The most challenging thing about NFP is that it simply emphasizes (not surprisingly) how God designed sex for procreation; when my wife is at her most vigorous in bed is during peak fertility, precisely when we have to abstain. Likewise, when she is pregnant, and one would think it would be nine months of chart-free sexcapades, nope- that’s when she is least passionate in bed. And CCL encourages us to find other ways to express our affection, but really, cuddling and kissing are impossible when I’m horny. They just fan the flames. Even a footrub becomes too sensual. I’ve often toyed then with the idea of becoming a providentialist, and just enjoy the peak days with my wife. Anywho… thank you for providing a forum to discuss NFP from the man’s perspective. It doesn’t happen often enough.

  8. Avatar

    @Dan- remember, Charity in all things, buddy. No babies die when couples avoid sex on fertile days, so there shouldn’t be any children haunting you. I would rather hear from you a cogent explanation for how you and your wife made the decision to abandon NFP- how did the two of you resolve the questions about affording hospital bills, tuition debt, loan payments, and mortgage on one income. Yes we have to trust in God, and yet we also have to be responsible stewards. I’m a stay at home dad and my wife teaches in a Catholic school, so we will never be wealthy, but we aren’t prepared to throw all caution to the wind. Pregnancy is hard work for my wife; neither of us are interested in having Irish twins- we both need a good two years to recover. So there are valid reasons to abstain. We had to buy a bigger car to make room for a second car seat and that additional loan payment coincided with the loss of my job and my wife having to take postgrad credits to maintain her teaching certificate. You might think those are frivolous considerations, but I don’t. They have taught us to carefully budget our spending on groceries. We’re not keen on piling in more debt at this time. If we end up having to move, then where does the budget stretch to pay the hospital bills for a third child? None of those are frivolous in my mind. Would you care to explain how you came to consider such decisions unbecoming of a married couple trying to provide for future needs of their children?

  9. Avatar
    Perinatal Loss Nurse

    I entered adulthood and marriage as a Protestant and NFP was LEFT OUT of my RCIA class (even though I was in it for over 2 years) so I wallowed in truly invincible ignorance on this topic until it all (for me) became moot. Now as a Catholic who lived her marriage without the influence of these teachings, I am 1) very sad for me & my H that we never had the benefit of the fruits of these teachings and 2) a profound appreciation for the men who are committed to being decent considerate husbands living with this continence. From my vantage point, there are very very few husbands actively living sacrificial, committed, authentic Catholic life. I grieve for the lost opportunity, I encourage you in strength and setting an example.

  10. Avatar

    Men do have cycles. We also pick up on our wives. Our bodies are designed to make babies and it is difficult for both men and women to go against that.

    I struggled with this issue for years, until I realized that dealing with the “horniness” is part of the struggle. The goal and the reward is being able to be close and intimate with your wife WITHOUT having sex. This is not to say that sex is bad, but there are going to be times in your marriage when sex is not an option and but you are still going to need intimacy. Do we get it perfectly? No. As I said, it’s a struggle, but one worth doing.

    “But really, why can’t they make stickers that don’t smudge all over the place? ”

    Try electronic charts. Billings LIFE (Australia) has a nice Excel chart for Billings (and Creighton) users. And if you are REALLY worried about embarrassing questions, you can password protect them.

    @Dan: Careful, buddy. Your sedevacantism is showing.

  11. Avatar

    Dan: There are two virtues associated with the use of NFP to avoid pregnancy that I think you’ve missed. 1. Self discipline is necessary for every marriage, and sexual self discipline is essential. Like fasting, NFP helps teach that. 2. Refusing to use NFP can be a sign of heroic virtue worthy of the deepest respect, but it can also be a sign of spiritual immaturity; of refusing to accept personal responsibility for making decisions. I’m not in a position to judge anyone’s behavior from the outside, except my own.

    Finally, the mention of “grave” reasons for the use of NFP to avoid pregnancy is not Church teaching. Both Humane Vitae (Latin version on the Vatican’s own website) and the Catechism (para. 2368), list “just cause”, not grave reasons. The belief that the use of NFP to postpone pregnancy requires “grave” reasons normally comes from a misunderstanding of Casti Canubii. But, why would one accept the teaching of Cast Canubii and not the Catechism? For a genuine Catholic, that makes no sense.

  12. Avatar

    To quote Fr. Erlenbush, a reputable source:

    Finally, I must note that there is something very suspicious about many of the conservative Catholic critics of natural family planning. They will often misuse language in a manner which obscures what the Church really teaches about NFP and contraception.
    Whether we consider the philosophically unintelligible language of “NFP with a contraceptive mentality” or the mistranslation of “justae causae” as “only in the most extreme circumstances” – these individuals are tying up heavy burdens hard to bear, they are binding people’s consciences in matters where there is room for freedom of opinion.
    The Encyclical Humanae Vitae (especially in nn. 10 and 16) speaks of “serious reasons”, “just causes”, “worthy and weighty justifications”, “defensible reasons”, and “just reasons” for spacing children or avoiding pregnancy through the use of natural family planning. What exactly qualifies as a serious, just, worthy, and defensible reason for spacing children is certainly the point of debate – and there is no easy one-size-fits-all answer!
    Still, it is clear that the Church has never taught that NFP should only be used in the most extreme circumstances or in life-or-death situations. Further, it should now be clear that a couple who uses (or even misuses) natural family planning will never be in danger of a falling into a contraceptive mentality.

  13. Avatar

    Here is a snippet from LifeIssues.net–

    The Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes the teaching when it says: “For just reasons (de iustis causis), spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality” (No. 2368). That objective criterion excludes as legitimate the alternative to impede procreation through choosing to contracept. What constitutes a just cause?

    Neither the Sacred Penitentiary, Pius XII, Paul VI, nor John Paul II specify concretely what constitutes a “iusta causa.” “Humanae Vitae” gets nearest. It teaches that “with regard to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised by those who prudently and generously decide to have more children, and by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time” (No. 10; see also No. 16).

    The text itemizes four areas of life from which such reasons might arise: physical and mental health, and economic and social conditions. This is still very general, but together with the prior statements, it provides us with enough information to formulate the following moral norm (note: this is my formulation): “If a couple has serious reasons, arising from the physical or mental condition of themselves, their children, or another for whom they have responsibility, or from the family’s economic or wider social situation, they may defer having children temporarily, or, if the situation is serious enough, indefinitely, providing they use morally legitimate means. Recourse to natural fertility cycles to space births (NFP) under such circumstances is an example of a morally legitimate means. Contraception is not.”

  14. Avatar

    Just for starters there are 2 documents which address your question amongst others one is the VADEMECUM FOR CONFESSORS CONCERNING SOME ASPECTS OF THE MORALITY OF CONJUGAL LIFE

    #6. However, profoundly different from any contraceptive practice is the behaviour of married couples, who, always remaining fundamentally open to the gift of life, live their intimacy only in the unfruitful periods, when they are led to this course by serious motives of responsible parenthood. This is true both from the anthropological and moral points of view, because it is rooted in a different conception of the person and of sexuality.

    The witness of couples who for years have lived in harmony with the plan of the Creator, and who, for proportionately serious reasons, licitly use the methods rightly called “natural,” confirms that it is possible for spouses to live the demands of chastity and of married life with common accord and full self-giving.

    The second is from Humanae Vitae,

    “If, then, there are serious motives to space out births, which derive from the physical or psychological conditions of husband and wife, or from external conditions, the Church teaches that it is then licit to take into account the natural rhythms immanent in the generative functions, for the use of marriage in the infecund periods only, and in this way to regulate birth without offending the moral principles which have been recalled earlier.

    “The Church is coherent with herself when she considers recourse to the infecund periods to be licit, while at the same time condemning, as being always illicit, the use of means directly contrary to fecundation, even if such use is inspired by reasons which may appear honest and serious. In reality, there are essential differences between the two cases; in the former, the married couple make legitimate use of a natural disposition; in the latter, they impede the development of natural processes. It is true that, in the one and the other case, the married couple are concordant in the positive will of avoiding children for plausible reasons, seeking the certainty that offspring will not arrive; but it is also true that only in the former case are they able to renounce the use of marriage in the fecund periods when, for just motives, procreation is not desirable, while making use of it during infecund periods to manifest their affection and to safeguard their mutual fidelity. By so doing, they give proof of a truly and integrally honest love” (Paul VI, Enc. Humanae Vitae, July 25, 1968, n. 16).

    -from this URL: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/114820-nfp-and-contraceptive-mentality/

  15. Avatar
    Perinatal Loss Nurse

    SWP,

    Thank you for charitably contributing what you have to this discussion…about 10 years ago, I was a marginal Catholic with a poor understanding of this and Purgatory and it was some acquaintances on the internet who patiently explained it all to me that allowed me to quit ruminating on areas where I (out of ignorance) dissented from the Church. Gaining a better understanding allowed me to come into fuller communion with the Church and that opened the door to me having opportunities to serve.

  16. Avatar

    @PLNurse: I think there’s so much we need to do to make NFP understandable to our culture. My wife and I were taught the CCL sympto-thermal method, and we are going to be trained in the Family of the Americas billings ovulation method this summer so that we can be trainers for our Diocese. I hope you continue to expose yourself to the brilliance of the Church’s cohesive and eminently reasonable doctrine in all areas.

  17. Avatar

    Jared,
    If you’re going to about the embarrassments of my life in your blog, make sure you get the story right for all to fully appreciate. My mom figured out what the “I’s” meant–she just proceeded to call my sibling and share how many times the “I’s” were on our chart.

    Moral of the story: Don’t leave your chart in an accessible place when grandma is baby-sitting.

  18. Avatar

    “What has helped you gain more control over your passions in the times that require continence?”

    An ironclad refusal to masturbate. If you don’t go down that road, you will be able to master yourself much more easily.

  19. Avatar

    @Steve-

    I completely agree with your ironclad proposal, but I must demur- not masturbating is precisely what’s meant by “self-mastery”– so how does one arrive at the self-mastery that enables one to not masturbate? An ironclad refusal works to a point. What steps does one take to not yield to that temptation, especially if the sin is habitually in place from before marriage?

    This is where I agree with Jared that fasting is helpful in curbing one’s appetites generally, yet I don’t agree about running. Running only revs my engines. It’s not practical to throw oneself on thornbushes like St. Francis every time one gets the urge (and cold showers probably work better anyway- though showers and nakedness might be something to avoid too).

    So how does one develop the resolve to not masturbate? I have found that disciplined prayer, accountability to a spiritual director, and frequent confession helped me overcome the habitual practice of masturbation prior to my marriage, yet even now- I still struggle to maintain that resolve in periods of abstinence — in fact that’s when the urge is strongest and most difficult to resist.

    I wish I could claim heroic virtue, but no. I have radically improved my resistance to libido compared to adolescence, but even once per year is still imperfect chastity. Feeling fit and healthy only makes me crave sex more, but I agree with Jared that we must have strategy, we must know our weaknesses. Custody of the eyes is a given.

    Prayer, fasting, and spiritual direction helped me to overcome addiction to porn prior to may marriage and a personal retreat with the Blessed Sacrament gave me the graces to prohibit oral sex from my marriage. Yet I still yield to masturbation a few times per year in spite of my ironclad resolve to not do so.

    Reading the lives of the saints, a surprising number practiced corporal mortification such as the cilice (ouch!), hairshirts, and discipline (a knotted whip), but they had recourse to careful monitoring form a spiritual director. Some slept on boards. I might try that next time I get ‘horny’.

  20. Avatar

    @ Jared- you may have noticed my many attempts to provide an alternative to horny, such as urgency, libido, or revved. It’s not as easy as you’d think.

  21. Avatar

    oops- you already shot down libidinous. Hmmm…

    Randy? nope.

    When tree sap dries, it’s called pitch. Perhaps a positive way to describe a man whose sap is flowing might be ‘unpitched’?

  22. Avatar

    @ JD- what are ways to express intimacy without stimulating arousal? How did you come to accept the state of being unpitched during periodic abstinence? How did you make peace with it? how did you develop self-mastery?

  23. Avatar

    @SteveT, SWP provided my reply. Masterbation is not the only issue. Another for me is the change in my attitude and becoming much more self-absorbed. Rather than putting on a smiling annointed face, my marital intimacy fast comes along with a the grump face. But how to transfer this to giving of myself is what I want to accomplish.

    @SWP, yes, spiritual direction is a great weapon. Offering the struggle for my spouse does really help which was advice from a good confession. In my personal striving, Opus Dei has helped me with this direction.

    “what are ways to express intimacy without stimulating arousal?”

    This is a great question. I don’t know if there is anything to recommend because we are sexual beings and designed for community, marital intimacy being a great example of two people coming together. If arousal happens, directing the energy to higher ends becomes necessary. The virtue of chastity temperates the sexual energy so that it can be spent on the Beloved or beloved. The problem I experience is that the desire often remains and this is likely do to the Fall. This is another reason I mentioned running (it could be gardening, basketball, etc.) because it puts a person in a different place and expends physical energy possibly in the hope that it will exhaust you.

  24. Avatar

    Crup, the internet swallowed a really lengthy reply I’d banged out on the subway. I don’t have time to reconstruct it! Let me sum up.

    @J Q: I frequent a Trad parish, where I associate with other celibate and continent adults who aren’t shy about the subject, and who don’t automatically assume I’m sexually repressed or insane. it’s helpful to have the support network and the examples. I know that that may not be an option for you, but it has helped me.
    I also find that corporal mortification is useful, though I haven’t tried any of the extreme stuff @SWP mentions. Just abstaining from meat on Friday and fasting and abstaining during Lent and Advent us a useful discipline. And having fellow Trads to commiserate with helps.

  25. Avatar

    Hey, I know this is kind of a guys discussion, but Ive been getting a lot of valuable information about NFP out of it, and I really admire you struggling for beautiful chastity. Keep up the good work.

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