Let’s Have a Talk

[ 19 ] June 6, 2012 AD |

We need to revise how we talk about modesty. When I was a teenager and was told about modesty, it was couched in terms of my sexuality as well as the sexuality of the men I came into contact with. The takeaway message was this: Your body is good for 2 things – having babies and inspiring men to lust. Only one of those things is good and you must avoid the other at all costs. You are dirty because you are a woman.

 

The problem of course is that is not true. But the damage was done and in fact is being done. So often when we talk about modesty we talk about sexuality. Of course, it’s rarely quite so blatant as the message above, but it’s the same message: a woman should only be modest because her body inspires men to lust. Sure, they say “Oh, a woman has dignity, she should dress with dignity” but what isn’t explained is the definition of dignity being used. Dignity here is defined as “Asexual. Pleasing to look upon, like a flower. A utilitarian object.” A dignified woman would never highlight anything on her body except her face or perhaps her hair. She would never show leg, or a hint of leg. In fact, she may or may not have legs, boobs, a waistline or a butt at all. Only her husband would know for sure.

 

This is a shame. This approach only serves to objectify the woman as much as the pornography business does. A woman isn’t a flower – she is a human. It also reduces men to animals, unable to control their slightest thoughts, always at the mercy of women. This message of modesty only does damage.

 

I think there is a better way. There has to be a way to teach the value of modesty without objectifying the woman and the man. There has to be a way to teach the value of modesty without obsessively focusing on sexuality to a point where each person begins to feel dirty in his or her own skin. Here is how I think we can do that. I talk below in terms of women, but the same can be said for men.  Modesty is a two way street.

 

We should teach modesty in terms of our purpose as people. When talking about modesty we should talk about the purpose of clothing, the purpose of woman and man, respect for our situation and for other people, and beauty.  Modesty is also humility – a modest woman is a humble woman and in a way our clothes should reflect that. It is possible to acknowledge what we have, without flaunting. This of course flies in the face of the popular mantra “If you’ve got it, flaunt it.”

Myself and my classmates - strong, awesome women.

So there are some talking points about modesty. But how does it all come together practically?

 

Dressing with a purpose. There is a purpose to everything, even our clothes. We all know what the purpose of a business suit is as well as the purpose of a bathing suit. We all know that neither can be worn in place of the other. There is also a purpose to a scoop neck t-shirt, a string bikini, a pencil skirt, bermuda shorts…need I go on? When we go out shopping or get dressed in the morning, we should always ask ourselves “Why am I wearing this? Is there a better option?” For some clothes, the only purpose they have is to elicit an animal response from another person. Those would be the clothes that are cut in a “sexy” manner – clothes that just about everyone can identify as being sexy. So let’s look at the purpose of our clothes and get rid of (or alter) the ones that reduce us to “sexy body parts”. There is a time and a place for everything. Sexiness and sex are good – to be enjoyed by you and your spouse only.

Dressing for real respect. I’m sure our feminist foremothers are rolling in their graves right now. We fought for intellectual rights and won them, but we’ve allowed ourselves to be played into thinking those rights are useless. It’s easier to be sexy than smart. Well I say let’s be smart! Let’s dress smart! When I want respect I act like I deserve that respect and I dress like it too. I also dress respectfully in regards to those around me. It goes back to dressing with a purpose.

Dressing for pleasure. What’s the point in having a closet full of clothes if you don’t feel good in any of them? You can be as covered as you want, but if your clothes aren’t bringing you any pleasure then they are not good for you. God formed us and called us “good” – so clothe yourself in things that are good too. God didn’t create you so that you could then be hidden away. You are not dirty or an object. You are a beautiful person, with a beautiful body. Clothe yourself beautifully.

Dressing to bless. We should take others into consideration too. Wives tend to do this with their husbands self-consciously. If I know my husband likes a particular piece of clothing then I take care to wear it as often as I can. When I walk into a house of worship I do my absolute best to make sure that I am dressed appropriately according to those standards as well as my own. Doing things like that is a way to bless other people, by showing that you respect them.


Clearly, modesty does not have to be and should not be discussed with a hyper fixation on sexuality.  Yes, there should be a healthy respect for a discussion of sexuality, however modesty goes so far beyond that.
[author] [author_image timthumb='on']http://www.ignitumtoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Kayla-Peterson.png[/author_image] [author_info]Kayla Peterson is a Catholic, a wife, and a secretary. On June 25, 2011 she married the love of her life. Together, they are working on building their marriage for the Lord. Though she is Catholic and her husband is not, they enjoy worshiping Christ together, finding common ground, and trying not to shout about their differences. Their hope is that their children will know, love, and honor God with all their hearts, minds, and souls. Kayla blogs about interfaith marriage and other topics that strike her fancy at The Alluring World.[/author_info] [/author]

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Category: Men's Issues, Women's Issues

About the Author ()

Kayla Peterson is a Catholic, a wife, and a book addict. On June 25, 2011 she married the love of her life. Together, they are working on building their marriage for the Lord. Though she is Catholic and her husband is not, they enjoy worshiping Christ together, finding common ground, and trying not to shout about their differences. Their hope is that their children will know, love, and honor God with all their hearts, minds, and souls. Kayla blogs about interfaith marriage and other topics that strike her fancy at The Alluring World.
  • Ink and Quill

    My general rule of thumb is to keep track of the comments made on your appearance (if any) that day. If they discuss a particular piece (I often get compliments on my skirts, tights, or socks; all items in my distinctive “costume” or “uniform”), you’re in pretty good shape. If someone comments on your body (outside of “you look great”/comments on whether or not you’ve put on or lost weight, which are another issue entirely), you might not be in a good position.

    Hair is completely excepted from this rule, since women tend to talk about it a lot. And I can’t imagine anything skanky you can do with a hairdo.

    This rule isn’t hard-and-fast, but I like it as a basic guideline, of sorts.
    ~Ink

  • http://shovedtothem.blogspot.com/ Rececca Frech

    Ink and Quill, That’s a very good rule of thumb. I’ll be passing it along!

  • http://www.fumblingtowardgrace.com Sarah

    I especially love the first part of this article. Thanks for sharing! I basically wear what I like, and often what my husband likes. I know when I’m dressed modestly because I walk out the door and don’t think about what I’m wearing again that day (unless someone comments on it). If, however, I choose something that is borderline immodest for me, it will be in the back of my mind all day long, feeling self-conscious. I think that’s how our conscience works to help us dress in ways that are honoring our dignity as people.

    I hate that this conversation so often centers around not making it more difficult for men who are trying to be chaste. Not that this isn’t true, or that women shouldn’t care at all about that, but that is not the reason we dress modestly. We dress modestly because we are made in the image and likeness of God, and even if a man will never in our lives set eyes on us, we should still dress befitting the dignity of a child of God. Also, some men are going to objectify women no matter what they wear. Dressing only to make it “easier for men” is the kind of mentality that leads to a burqua or Catholic Amish, neither of which is a useful way of presenting oneself for purposes of (a) not drawing undue attention to oneself (the definition of modesty) and (b) evangelizing the wider culture.

    Great article!

  • http://modthirtyone.wordpress.com/ Anh

    Thanks for sharing this article! I completely agree with you on the first part, and I love that you were able to break up the topic into four different categories. It helps a lot in thinking about it. I’ve been trying to come up with a general modesty guideline that isn’t centered around the specifics of how long a skirt should be or how low a neckline is allowed to go, but one that would encompass modesty as a virtue that permeates into various aspects of our lives as well. I found your article to be really refreshing and helpful!

    -anh

  • http://www.noweternityandbetween.blogspot.com Lianna

    You are so right. As women, we are beautiful and not dirty! I agree with Anh, modesty is a virtue that comes into other aspects of our lives as well. It’s also about not trying to gain attention (being confident, of course, but not being prideful).

  • http://thealluringworld.blogspot.com Kayla Peterson

    @Ink – That is a good rule, thanks for sharing!

    @Sarah – Great explanation “We dress modestly because we are made in the image and likeness of God … we should dress befitting the dignity and child of God.” I think you’re right too, about our consciences. A well-formed conscience will let a person know where that line is.

    @Anh – Thank you! It’s been a long hard road to travel to get to the point where I felt like I could even write something like this.

    @Lianna – Yes, I agree with you and Anh. Modesty is not just about our clothes, it is a virtue which encompasses our whole lives.

  • http://www.mollymakesdo.blogspot.com Molly

    I moderate a “modest dress” group on Ravelry – for women of all faiths and walks of life to discuss their version of modest dress and the one thing we say repeatedly is that how you dress is only one part of modesty – a women who goes around with a “holier than thou” or in this case “more modest than thou” attitude is not living it as a true way of life, rather as a fashion choice.

    Great article, and I’ll be sharing it with my group!

  • buckyinky

    We need to revise how we talk about modesty. When I was a teenager and was told about modesty, it was couched in terms of my sexuality as well as the sexuality of the men I came into contact with. The takeaway message was this: Your body is good for 2 things – having babies and inspiring men to lust. Only one of those things is good and you must avoid the other at all costs. You are dirty because you are a woman.

    This seems like an overly simplistic way of looking at the topic. If people are coming away from talks about modesty with conclusions like these, I wonder if the problem might not be so much in the message, but in the reductionist tendencies of the hearer. Are you suggesting that those who addressed this topic wanted you to look at yourself as “dirty because you are a woman”? Or is it possible you might have misunderstood what these people were trying to say, and that if your understanding improved, you might receive the message better and not come away with such simplistic conclusions? I realize what I’m saying is rather candid (some might say lacking tact), but it seems like you bear some responsibility as a receiver of the message. This is an important part of the equation in talks about modesty: it’s not just the delivery of the message that needs improvement, but also the disposition of the receiver of the message.

  • http://www.mollymakesdo.blogspot.com Molly

    @bucky, I think you need to reread the article because that’s not the conclusion, only the introduction.

    There are many people who are taught in this manner of thinking about modesty – many of the conservative protestant groups I was brought up in did think and teach that unless you dress frumpy and dowdy a woman is just inviting a man to sin by looking at her – as if just the mere thought of an ankle or shoulder will drive every man to lustful sin. As if women can’t help but ooze sex constantly and men cannot think about anything else even for minute. It’s a demeaning line of thought to both sexes.

  • buckyinky

    Thanks for your thoughts, Molly. I think I know what you’re talking about with the conservative Protestant groups, having been raised in a Protestant fundamentalist tradition myself. I was part of the audience to many talks about modesty in youth group, summer camps, etc., after which I would often hear similar responses from others as yours when you said they treat the subject “as if women can’t help but ooze sex constantly and men cannot think about anything else even for minute.” While I’m not saying the speakers approached the subject always in the best manner possible, the recipients of the message showed an inability to receive the message well whether it was delivered in an impeccable manner or not, based on their simplistic and reductionist retake on what was said. The reality, from my observations, is that none of the speakers intended their message to be received in such a negative fashion, but none of the critical recipients were reflective enough to consider this. I include myself among those lacking self-reflection, looking back.

    Again, as much (or possibly more) focus needs to be placed on the recipient of the instruction in talks about bearing oneself with modesty, as on the teacher.

  • http://thealluringworld.blogspot.com Kayla Peterson

    @bucky – Thank you for you thoughts. The problem with modesty talks – at least the ones that I have heard – is that they focus almost exclusively on sexuality as the reason for modesty. If you have heard different ones than I’m thankful for that. I don’t think that I am a simpleton and reduced the message, I voluntarily went to the talks and read the books – I was eager for the message! However it was not unusual for me to walk out of a talk feeling exposed, no matter what I was wearing. I made notes in the margins, brought the books along with me while shopping, took notes at the talks and asked questions. I still felt bad about myself. If you’d like to think that I’m simple that’s fine, but I think if the majority of women feel this way then there is a problem with the way modesty is approached, not the way it is received.

  • http://www.mollymakesdo.blogspot.com Molly

    Ditto to Kayla, once I realize that modesty was more about how high or low my neckline was I was surprised at how well the whole idea worked into the way I was drawn to lead my life. I think Kayla touches on a very healthy idea within the concept of modest is that we aren’t meant to completely shun our sexuality, but rather channel it into the right times of our lives.

  • buckyinky

    Hi Kayla,

    Thanks for the response. I’m not sure why you brought up the idea of your being a simpleton, or the idea that you might not have been eager to hear instructors speak on modesty. I never suspected either of these things. One can be eager to learn and also not be simple-minded, but still falsely reduce the ideas contained in another person’s message or be guilty of oversimplifying it.

    A few things that I see worth pondering: You said that you walked away from these talks feeling exposed and feeling bad about yourself. Did the teacher intend for you to feel this way? Feelings and emotions are wonderful things, but regarding a matter like this one, how important are your feelings in the first place? Don’t you as the hearer have something to do with your feelings, something over which the teacher has no control? If the teacher must be concerned that, when all is said and done, a majority of his or her hearers feel good about the instruction, might that stipulation have the likelihood of impeding the truth’s getting out? It appears that a majority of Jesus’ contemporaries had bad feelings about His teaching, but does that mean there was a problem with the way He approached His subjects?

    This is not, again to be clear, to say that those whom either you or I have heard teaching on the subject of modesty have necessarily been speaking all good and true things. This is to say rather that it appears that no matter how well the teacher presented his or her instruction on modesty, you were ill-disposed to receive that message, and that this ill-disposition had little or nothing to do with the strength or weakness of the presentation.

  • http://thealluringworld.blogspot.com Kayla Peterson

    @Bucy – The point is that an extreme focus on a woman’s sexuality as the only reason to dress modestly is wrong. It is objectification whether or not that is what the speaker intends. Intent does not make something right. I was personally berated for the way that I dress, in public, by a man. My fault? I wore pants. He could see the shape of my legs and my butt, something he could not do when I was wearing a skirt. I was not wearing leggings as pants, they were just pants. Yet I was causing him and the rest of the men on the street to lust. I assume you’ve never had this type of encounter. That was one encounter, but it is an example of how modesty was presented. I’m not going to detail every article in my wardrobe, but I did not deserve that. No woman deserves that. I was not ill-disposed to receiving the message of modesty. The message was not a good one.

  • http://www.mollymakesdo.blogspot.com Molly

    @Kayla – Great point (sorry you went thru that – I remember a particularly embarrasing moment when I was attending a baptist church with my grandparents I was not allowed to wear a “skort” (shorts under a skirt) because someone might think I was wearing pants) modesty is also not a “women-only” state of mind. While it might be right to teach a women to put thought into her wardrobe and consider the effects a certain aspect of clothing might have on another, we should also be teaching our boys and young men not to think of women solely as sex-items. If we teach our boys that a woman’s only asset (and greatest sin) is her body than we are only encouraging a downward spiral. We need to be teaching men and women that they are more than their bodies. What’s the C.S. Lewis quote ” You are not your body. You have a body, you are a soul.” – something like that.

    We also have to adapt our messages to their intended audience, and sometimes that means starting with the basics and letting them lead themselves to a higher understanding. Very few men and women are receptive to being attacked with messages of their horribly sinful behavior, especially when they’re unaware of certain decisions and actions and isn’t there something in the catechism about intentional vs. unintentional sin anyways?

  • http://thealluringworld.blogspot.com Kayla Peterson

    Thank you Molly. I should add that that encounter happened three years after I first started down the modesty path. It was the month that I went from full time frump to dressing with real dignity. It did not color my negative perception of the modesty message, but rather reinforced it.

    Molly, you made those points very well. I will have to look up that quote; C.S. Lewis is a brilliant man. I think you perfectly summed up what I wanted to say.

  • http://remnantofremnant.blogspot.com priest’s wife (@byzcathwife)

    I totally agree (except is there really ever a reason to wear a string bikini?)—my girls dance ballet which requires ‘immodest’ wear— I balance it out by having the girls wear cover-ups to and from practice and wearing leotards that don’t have plunging necklines and spaghetti straps. It works.

  • buckyinky

    Thanks for the exchange Kayla and others, though I think it’s best for me to bow out at this point. It’s pretty hard to have a discussion, because you’ve framed it in such a way that I’m in a position of having to argue against your experiences or your feelings, a task akin to slaying the Hydra. If I speak to one personal anecdote, there’s always another or two to take its place.

    For what it’s worth, I agree that you have or had disagreeable feelings and experiences.

  • Ann

    This was a great article and a breath of fresh air on the whole modesty debate which can get sooo tedious. The way I look at is, any woman who is a devout Christian has a pretty well-formed conscience and should be allowed to wear what she feels comfortable in without others judging her. I think modesty is really about not drawing attention to yourself and dressing appropriately for whatever situation you are in.

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